Calum Ross
Interview with Zsuzsi Csiszer 2011

You’ve just had 3 exhibitions on the go at once so you must be exhausted! Are you taking a well
deserved break or are you diving into a new project?

Mindig elgondolkodom , és megilletődök a kiállítások után, kicsi űr is keletkezik bennem, ugyanakkor az alkotó munka folyamatos. Ezért csak akkor tudok pihenni, ha úgy érzem, hogy komplexen megfogalmaztam egy problémát, és kicsit más felé fordulok. Most azonban még vannak olyan kérdéseim, amik szorosan kapcsolódnak az előző dolgokhoz ezért inkább úgy fogalmaznám, hogy folytatom amit elkezdtem. Remélem, ez nem hangzik túl zavarosan. Lehet, hogy nem tudok pihenni?:) / /Egyébként nagyon izgat még a táblaképek esetében a „tépés „ , mint motívumrendszer, ahogy az alkotó folyamatban mennyire változik a tudatos és tudattalan szerkesztés…/

I’m always touched and get into a meditative mood when my exhibition is over, I feel a little emptiness inside. On the other hand, creative work doesn’t stop so I can only have a rest when I feel that I have fully defined a problem and I can turn my attention towards something else. At the moment, however, I still have some questions that are related to the previous things so I would rather say that I keep on doing what I have started. I hope it doesn’t sound too confusing. Maybe I just cannot rest. I am still very excited about the tearing as a system of motives in case of the board pictures, how the conscious and unconscious design changes during the process of creating.

I want to talk about the installation piece at the Kiscelli Muzeum because it is so different from the
majority of work I’ve seen from you recently – can you tell me a little about the concept behind it?

Azt gondolom, hogy a megfogalmazás módja más, de ha tovább gondolom, akkor még az sem, mert alapvetően egy un. Utazást modelleztem a kiállításokkal, mert maga az alkotás, mint pszichés folyamat is ábrázolva van, egymást alátámasztva a kiállításokon.
Egyébként a vágódeszkán például egész egyszerűen mondjuk felvágom a paradicsomot, úgy elképzeltem, hogy egy vagont el tudnék vágni..Persze, a tárgyi valóságban ez másképp működött. Viszont a vágással feltétlenül egy új lehetőséget kívánok érzékeltetni, a változás lehetőségét, hogy mindenkinek van lehetősége a dolgokat újra értelmezni.

I think the way of expression is different, but if I go further on thinking, even that is not different, as basically I modelled a so called journey with the exhibitions, because creation itself, as a psychic process is represented as well, underpinning each other at the exhibitions. Well, as on the chopping boards I, let’s say, simply cut the tomatoes, I imagined that this way I could just as well cut a railway carriage. Of course it worked differently in the material reality. On the other hand, with the cut I want to show a new possibility by all means, the possibility of change, that everybody has a chance to re-interpret things.

What I find fascinating about you is that you’re not afraid to work on several projects
simultaneously – how do you manage your creative process?

Szükségem van arra, hogy a különböző ötleteimet valahogy rendszerezzem, erre nagyon jók a blogok. Ha kedvem van, felrakok egy adott témában valamit, aztán lehet, hogy csak hónapokkal később folytatom. Mivel teoretikus vagyok, fontos számomra, hogy a gondolataimat több oldalról támasszam alá, így magam számára igazolok egy saját valóságot. Ezáltal reflektálok a környezetemre is. Valami mindig eszembe jut, de mivel különböző médiumokkal foglalkozom, valamelyik projektem tovább alakul…/ Néha azért sikerül mindent összekuszálni./ A blogok az íróasztal publikus fiókjai.

I need to organize somehow the different ideas of mine, and for this purpose blogs are very handy. When I feel like I just upload something in a certain topic and I might only go on with it months later. Since I am theoretical, it is important for me to support my ideas from several aspects, this way I can justify a reality of my own for myself. This is how I respond to my environment. Something always comes to my mind, but, as I work with different mediums, one of my projects is formed on. (Sometimes I successfully mix up everything.) The blogs are the public drawers of a desk.

You’ve been showing a lot more photographic work recently, is this a medium you want to explore
further?

Nem tudom, mert most is festek, de látod, van ami fotóként működik a legjobban. Igen, ebben a médiumban elég nyitott vagyok, kevesebb választ adok a nézőnek, mint mondjuk a festészet esetében, ahol maga az anyag, a munkafolyamat , a technika is befolyásol. Szeretek közvetítőként létezni, hogy kérdéseket vessek fel.
Azoknál a munkáimnál, ahol jobban igyekeztem válaszolni, kevésbé inspiráltam gondolkodásra a nézőt.

I don’t know, as I am painting now as well, but, you see, there are things that work best as photographs. Yes, I’m quite open with this medium, I give fewer answers to the spectator than, for example, in case of painting, where the material itself, the process of work and the technique all have an influence on me. I like living as a mediator so that I can raise questions.
Those works of mine where I tried hard to give answers were less thought-provoking.

In your portraits we first saw you destroying the women’s faces then in later works you reconstruct
them and create something new. Is there a logical progression happening here? If so what comes
next?

Azt gondolom, hogy tudatos vagyok, sorban tépegetek befelé, miközben rá kell döbbennem, hogy a saját életem tökörképei ezek a munkák, de csak sokkal később látok rá ezekere a személyes , mögöttes dolgokra. Ez olyan, mintha ellentmondás lenne, de a dolgok eleve a tagadásból, és az ellentmondásból épülnek fel szerintem. Ugyanakkor valamit érzek, mert folyton minden mögé – és elé szeretnék kerülni, hogy megismerjem magam.
Persze, amikor elkezdtem nyomozni a saját belső világomban, előbb feltéptem a rétegeket gondolatban, hogy ebben az állapotukban miként léteznek, majd az emlékképeimet ragasztottam egymásra fotó és papír formában keverve a festékkel, ekkor kezdett egyre jobban személyessé válni az egész. A nyomtatott papírok eleve rendelkeznek önálló mondanivalóval, nagyon élvezetes keverni ezeket a dolgokat. Akár ragasztva, akár megfestve, nagyon oda kell figyelni, hogy ezekhez a munkákhoz milyen „ alapanyagot” választok, mind tartalmilag, mint technikailag. Ebben az értelemben abszolút logikus szerkesztésről beszélhetünk.

I think I am conscious, I keep on tearing on and on, while I discover that these works are the reflections of my own life, but I realize these personal and second meanings a lot later. It sounds as if it was a contradiction, but I think things are created from contradictions. However, I feel something because I would always like to get behind and in front of things to find out about myself. Of course, when I started to search in my inside world, first I tore of these layers mentally to check how they existed in this state, then I stuck my memories on each other in the form of photographs and paper, mixed with paint and this is when it started to become very personal. Printed papers have their own meanings and it is very exciting to mix these things. Let them be stuck or painted, in case of these works I have to take special care of what ‘row material’ I choose, either as topic or as technique. In this sense we can talk about absolutely logical design.

The ‘female experience’ seems to be an important topic which echoes throughout your work and
I suppose many would label your work as ‘feminist’. Is this a label you shun or do you find it’s an
accurate description of the values behind your work?

Az utóbbi időben valóban kaptam ilyen reakciókat, és bátran bevállalok gender specifikus kiállításokat, mert nő vagyok, és ekként élem az életemet, nőként gondolkodom, ennek minden előnyével és hátrányával. Sok munka ötlet eleve a női feladatok végzése közben jött létre, mint a varrás, a fésülködés, sminkelés, stb. A minket körülvevő problémákra is nőként reagálok. De ez egy folyamat, valahogy nem tudok másként viselkedni, semmi direktíva nincs benne. / A férfiakat is nőként látom, lehet, hogy csinálni kéne egy pasis kiállítást…/

Lately I have received these kinds of reactions indeed, and I am ready to accept gender-specific exhibitions because I am a woman and this is how I live my life. I think as a woman with all the advantages and disadvantages of it. I get a lot of ideas while doing woman activities like sewing, combing or putting on make-up. I react to problems surrounding us as I woman. But this is a process, somehow I cannot act differently, it isn’t intentional. (I see men through a woman’s eye, maybe I should have a guyish exhibition)
In a sense, the independent arts scene in Hungary is still fairly young – how do you think the art
scene differs in Budapest to the likes of Paris or London?

Nem gondolom, hogy ez a réteg olyan fiatal lenne, sőt, a rendszerváltás előtt virágzott igazán, Kelet- Európához hasonlóan, gondolok itt főleg az ellenzéki független művészetre, de akár a Fiatal Művészek Studiója is régi múltra tekint vissza. Azonban nem kapnak elég publicitást, ami a rendszer hibája, ilyen szempontból még nagyon különbözünk a többi világvárostól. Ugye ez kisebb ország, de arányaiban ugyanolyan művészeti jelenlét van, mint más országokban. Talán az internet az, ami változtathat ezen a helyzeten…

I don’t think it is so young. On the contrary, it was before the change of system when it was really flourishing, just like in Eastern Europe. I am talking about the independent art of the opposition, but The Studio of Young Artists has a long history as well. However, they don’t get enough publicity, which problem is due to the system. In this sense we are still very different from other metropolises. This is a smaller country, but in proportion, there is the same artistic life as in other countries. Maybe the internet can change this situation….

What made you want to become an artist?

Ez sosem volt kérdés, mindig bütyköltem valamit, először egész pici koromban ilyenkor tudtam igazán elvonulni a világtól, aztán már úgy működtem, mint aki hivatásszerűen csinálja a dolgot, mert tudtam, hogy ez nem csak játék.

It was never a question, I have always been tinkering with something. First, when I was quite young. This was the time when I could have some privacy. Then it was as if I was doing it professionally because I knew that it wasn’t only a game.

What is behind it

Erdős Ibolya\’s interview with Zsuzsi Csiszér

It was not so long ago when in the art of Zsuzsi Csiszér the big-sized portraits were replaced by ripped portraits, and now she has made a step forward on the road of destruction  creating quite a constructive result.
It was in January 2008 at the exhibition in honour of El Kazovszkij that we met her new pictures bearing her new style, which combine collage, decollage and comics adding some kind of individual mythology to it.
While in the case of ripped portraits she  painted the rips of the pictures, now she does use the technique of tearing back.
She is persistent in finding what is behind the surface, just like the writing says in one of her paintings (\’Is there anybody behind it?\’)
When I met her and her works 9 years ago she painted transistors and heavily dotted \’Space\’ pictures.
Then the dots started to disappear from the canvas providing space for a collapsing metropolis.
Since then she has painted record covers, grass pictures, bubble blowing faces, women, blurring portraits, woman faces hidden behind a veil, then the damaged pictures came, first painted and now in reality.
I hardly get to know her current pictures when she is already painting the new ones, in which you can sense the previous line and the formulation of a new question.
She is an artist ceaselessly searching, constantly driven by the desire to discover her own self and the world, which naturally shows in her art. At the same time I wonder whether this way she is giving up the chance to form a more or less uniform style.
I asked her about this as well in a conversation about her new pictures.

E: Your latest pictures are composed of the mixture of several stylistic characteristics, as we can spot traces of collage, decollage, pop-art in them and there are parts with sticking, painting and drawing.
What made you take this step, which is quite surprising compared to what you did 1-1,5 years ago?

Cs: It\’s interesting what you are saying in connection with the remix. It reminded me of the musical expression \’bootleg\’, when a completely new song is created from songs that bear very different stylistic characteristics. In this sense, we can really talk about collage, the women portraits use pop as well, then I scratch the whole thing and they become decollage. I also paint dreamlike and funny graffiti faces so that there is a diverse visual communication in the picture. I check where the paper is not properly stuck on the canvas and if I find one like this, I tear it off.

E: These pictures are so full of details that the spectator can take a long time to take them in fully. The first things that catch our attention are the women, who are idolized icons of  film posters, magazines and comics from the last century till nowadays. Only after this we are able to discover a lot of modestly present details, which contrast the effect created by the super women.
Will you tell me what motivated you when you found out this kind of visual expression?

Cs: The kind of challenge to change the visual dynamics that I was already used to and to disturb  the spectator regarding form and content. I can express more by using the sticking technique, well, at least I think I can. We are overbalanced from the \’horror vacui\’ by an enlarged part, which in case of the portraits is a provocation. In this exuberant visual world the enlarged faces gain a new meaning, the smaller parts are more highlighted while the faces become more human. What I mean is what the looks refer to, how lascivious or cold a portrait can be as they are not stuck but painted.

E: The overal picture at the end is determinded by the details, the parts, which it consists of. We can see a part of an old TV magazine, a black and white family photo, the portraits of old Hungarian film actors and many of the poster women are from the second half of the last century. I have a very nostalgic feeling when looking at the paintings, as if you were looking back on time or searching through the little box found in the attic.

Cs: I have a huge collection of pictures, old photos, magazines, pictures taken from films, old postcards. Moreover, I have an incomplete stamp collection as well. Goods inherited or found at flee markets. I have them so that I can always select from them when I have an idea for a collage. This way it is not the picture that determines which direction I should follow. The photos show how much traditions have changed  in my family, how I can fix this in my wider environment and how much I am an outsider in a world driven by fashion. I conduct a visual conversation with myself.

E: In the paintings there are inscriptions with stencil letters as well, sometimes in Hungarian, sometimes in English. Due to the type of the letters, I have a feeling as if the pictures had been stamped with these inscriptions, like a crate of bananas or something. However, these are very personal messages from you: Am I funny?, There is something behind it, Talk with me, etc.
These are the inscriptions for me that give the final atmosphere of the pictures and make them complete.

Cs: The inscriptions are additional layers of the pictures. They are always visible. I made a pattern for them so that they unite the information they convey in each picture. As if I was creating and artificial wall, where they used to stick posters, ads, all kinds of paper, then a graffiti artist came and put his own message across the whole surface.
The message always shows my attitude to the particular work. For example, \’There is something behind it\’ tells the spectator to lift the picture up a little and look behind it. This is a game.

E: Regarding the decollage line of these pictures, I suppose that your damaged paintings from 2008 can be considered as pre-paintings, though that time probably you were motivated by other ideas.

Cs: While creating the pictures you mentioned, my mind was occupied by the thought  that what  we see is only one reality and there is another one and another one behind it, so the thing depicted is not what it seems.  Just like Heiddegger writes about the non-existent entity, and saying that the illusion veil is nothing itself.
In those paintings I used a peculiar way of picture destruction. This was more sophisticated and mystical compared to the present one.
The torn bits within the composed picture were the prints of conscious coincidenses.
I started to tear into the painted plain surfaces (the torn parts were painted as well), I destroyed the surface and tore it into pieces, I damaged the portraits. Eventually a new surface was created, which made it possible to re-think the aspects. Meanwhile, the sight of some ripped, neglected huge billboards by the motorways kept returning to my mind. It is due to this vision that I began to apply paper on canvas later.

E: Many elements of  your personal mythology are about searching the idea of part and whole,   microcosmos-macrocosmos, the idea that everything is in connection with everything , that there is a passage between different dimensions and even finding an underlying identity or meaning.

Cs: I only feel in my proper place when I play. At the moment I keep tearing. Part and whole. I like fiddling about with a picture or an object. I must see it in order to be able to be through with it. Following the good direction depends on little realizations. It is important, because during my development my works change and I don\’t cling to a style which people are used to from me. You have to recognize if it is not progressive. I think it\’s necessary to be home in more genres, because I need to express everything in an adequate way.

E: You say a style which people are used to from you. Aren\’t you afraid that due to the frequent changes you will not have a recognizable style? What do you think about this? Do you think it is important at all?

Cs: I do exploit a topic I am interested in. That\’s another thing that it\’s fast but it is possible to follow. Anyway, it is not the style that makes an artist, but the open-mindedness, insistence or non-insistence on routine solutions.
My problem with realist paintings is that the topic can always be new but I am imprisoned with my message. Since the way of expression is given, moreover, it is didactic, people like me would like to widen the possibilities of the style. So far I managed this by making chains of pictures, and when reaching a certain point – like bubbles or old ladies – I started to step over the boundaries of realism. Slowly I tried to neglect the techniqual constraints and to express myself in bigger contexts. This is what\’s happening now as well.

E: During the stages in your painting would you like to make the world more and more understandable, mainly for yourself?

Cs: Maybe this is one reason, but I also believe that what I do is important and this way I can open up channels for other people. My specific expression of perception might have the same energies as the energies of someone else\’s perception, therefore I may even be able to help. I believe in these common energies, otherwise my existence would be pointless, if I only analyze the world for myself. I must admit, sometimes it\’s good to find some truth while painting, but it\’s only enough to make me go on.

‘In the supersensible world, however, anything false, seen in its right light, impresses itself upon us as being ugly in appearance. Here again possible deceptions have to be taken into consideration and guarded against. The soul may meet a being in the supersensible world which may rightly be characterised as evil, although it manifests itself in a form that must be called beautiful if judged according to the idea of the beautiful that we bring with us from the physical world, in such a case we shall not be able to judge correctly before we have penetrated the heart of the being in question.
We shall then discover that the “beautiful” manifestation was only a mask which does not harmonise with the nature of the being, and then that which we thought to be beautiful – according to ideas borrowed from the physical world – impresses itself with particular force upon our mind as ugly. And as soon as this happens the “evil” being will no more be able to deceive us with its “beauty”. It must unveil itself to such a beholder in its true form, which can only be an imperfect expression of that which it is within. Such phenomena of the supersensible world make it especially evident how human conceptions must be transformed when we enter that world.’

Rudolf Steiner: A Road to Self Knowledge/ Meditation (seventh)

Things often don’t go well and we are worried about this.

This is a question of temperament. Sometimes I am nearly sticking in oil when really strange things pop into my mind and I’m trying to express them with a different means. This is when I take photos, draw, listen to some records or caterwaul, which nobody can take for long.

I think, in a selfish way, that I can understand the world in a way which opens up channels to others, therefore we can reach solutions together. As I suppose that what I do is connected to similar energies, so I am understood. I have been working as a painter for a long time, doing this and that, still, I sometimes face with not being understood and with the fact that many people refuse painting as such. This is related to the previous idea, since something to be able to operate as a channel, must be accepted to some extent.

I know that every artist makes mistakes when out of some pleasure and by repeating themselves they start to do similar things, because this way they make their own genre boring. That’s what happened to painting. Of course, panel painting has existed for long enough so some progressive personalities and people of the modern ages openly take on their outsiderness that comes with it. For example experts, or the people of experts…

How can we see behind the curtain?

We know what we have to satisfy and it is only ourselves.

We don’t need to use bad language to be understood. Most of us use vulgar words because they are not receiving attention either when they raise their voice or when they keep repeating the same thing over and over again. However, consequent intonation, as a way of education, sounds quite credible.

Don’t rush with anger at the ones who are in the their quest or who hurt you.

I could have written it fifteen years ago.

I have already mentioned that passion and feelings wind and fill me up, these same feelings slow me down when I am just about to make statements in a mainly relaxing, meditative stage.

This text might sound dry but without special reason I am writing it down with rhythm and feelings as well:

spectacular uproarious step

stimulating oversensitive nest

euphoria breath pliable

smiling favourable trust

exhibitionist encouraging right angle

inhibition formation conventer

narrated curved torch

waking improvement steaming

laughing conquerer bend

rotting unable summer

profound mixing foolish

tightening melodious lawn

rebelious exhausting dream

rhythm shade deepening

forgetting existing type

awakening loathing packing

adoration manner knocking

fading boasting hail

fashionable pouring blue

rustling stuttering incubator

cradled spied on eaves

rotated frightened moon

beingwithyou  sobbing abortive

loading mumbling your snake

flying kissing bitch

letter diamond patient

unreasonable guarding shelter

chocolate bowing vision

loving curing closeness

loving curing defiance

Does realism exist or not?
Everything is happening deep inside me. Inside and outside everything is the same. I’m in community with nature, objects and my thoughts. History, men, women, my children, my past and the story itself are inside me. Reality takes place inside as well, it’s created over and over again. That’s why there’s no realism.

Those who are interested can read the thoughts of Csiszér Zsuzsi, the painter, the nurse and priestess. As a good idealist, I know that fine art is the favourite of many people. Maybe not only art workers are interested in it. I’ll start writing here, because I am often asked why I am painting this and the more serious get as far as wondering why there are painters in the 21st century, and, wow, they really do paint. What bullshit. Of course, in a way it can be understood, somehow I am still empathic. In relation with great unity we must make progress.   OooOh. All that glitters is not gold. There is always a mistake that must be corrected sooner or later. Now I can only think of some, which explain the steps I have taken towards accepting the great universe. I’m the fighter of painting, but I must add that there are things more obvious to be explained differently. As we all know, complexity is the final result of our personal development to step on our universally valid way. So, as I said, I start with painting. Respect for each worker. This is the first. I mean for each fellow painter.  It’s good to “paint.”  I think, something like this was said by one of my favourite critic in connection with my plant pictures at one of my previous exhibitons. This sentence is a very good supposition, as it wholly reflects the doubts regarding painting. As it is not clear why this sentence was written, I use it as a starting point to define a new tendency to examine the justification of existence of painting. One sweats blood while painting. This is not masturbation. This is not sex, which is good or bad. Painting is “difficult?” 1. Because it must have that “certain one”. 2. Because it is very difficult to paint when the technical skill is automatically widen. 3. Because you have both. 4. Because you have only one of them. And you believe you will simply have it. 5. Because you know that the way to the great Unity is an experiment. 6. Because you know that you will never become practised, you are frightened not to repeat yourself unnecessarily. 7. Because you know that this is your whole life. 8. Because even you don’t know what journey you will have and though you are travelling towards mental truth, it must be slightly represented in each brushstroke of yours. That’s for sure.

Indeed, the tendencies of painting are showing more and more conscious representation. It seems as if it was some kind of requirement. However, we mustn’t forget the simple fact that approaching the universe like this is individual, and, whimsically, it feeds from passion. 5 May 2007

Something will make sense only if we firmly insist on it making sense. We don’t insist that it shouldn’t exist at all, because there will surely be something then and coincidence will get into focus. These times are over. The beginning work procedure always seems simple. I am this kind. Simply because I always let myself being inspirated, since I know that the thing that motivates me is always up to my state and it’s clear. It’s to the same extent as the change of my personality. I’m not devoted to any styles, I don’t belong to any trends of style. By the way, I’m not a technorealist either. What’s close to me is another thing. Quite. For example, I used to be a dj for years. And there’s the so called progressive techno, I’d call it “mysterydrifting” style. …Then I say, ok, let it be. It’s accepted in music, that’s why I am tolerant with this expression. I think it’s unnecessary, I’ve had that as well, and the debate as well.  It’s been only a side track, because I’ve long wanted to say something about this. There are still so many questions, you must always listen to the voice that keeps our collectively gained knowledge . . I’d ramble back into picture making. So, where I was is that the beginning is always good, simple. Well, then comes the hard work. This is where I usually come off a loser. It’s the other way around with me. 15 May